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No, not that one. This one. USS Enterprise pic: courtesy Wikipedia/US Navy

I want to see the USS Enterprise fly, but I'm curious how it would be accomplished in any realistic fashion.

Now, the world I'm building that needs a flying Enterprise has some advantages that might help us. Gravity is at 0.6 Earth Standard, and the atmosphere is considerably more dense. (Let's say 50% more)

  • How could this be done in the field? (using scavenged parts not necessarily only from the Enterprise herself)
  • How could it be done with the benefit of a full shipyard? (with the full technological and industrial might of the US Navy)

Note that I am aware of the relation between gravity and atmospheric density. This world gleefully ignores it for... reasons.

Danny Reagan
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  • Um is anti-gravity fair game? Or only using known means? – mechalynx Oct 07 '14 at 11:50
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    I would prefer known means, within current or near technology. – Danny Reagan Oct 07 '14 at 12:31
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    The Enterprise as it exists, or a structure very similar to it? In other words, is it fair game to use different materials to reconstruct the carrier? For example, replacing regular steel with a much lighter composite? – NotMe Oct 07 '14 at 14:30
  • The Enterprise as she exists. Stripping out some of the internal bulkheads and such is acceptable. (In the current iteration of the story, the Enterprise is modified in the field, by her crew.) – Danny Reagan Oct 07 '14 at 14:50
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    The Enterprise is a floating nuclear reactor and they need A LOT of water. A sailing Enterprise has access to copious amounts of sea water for cooling, cleaning, distilling, and steam for the turbines. A flying Enterprise will need to make due with something else. – Schwern Oct 07 '14 at 17:37
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-Zs4DhQUQs – Joshua Nov 28 '17 at 22:39
  • Obligatory Space Battleship Yamato reference. – RonJohn Sep 29 '18 at 14:11

6 Answers6

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Of course there is always The Avenger's flying carrier (which is ridiculously impractical but should be mentioned).

Flying Aircraft Carrier

Moving away from fantasy towards reality then actually there have been some serious real-world investigations along these lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_aircraft_carrier

USS Akron (ZRS-4) and USS Macon (ZRS-5) were two rigid airships built for scouting duties for the U.S. Navy and operational between 1931 and 1933.

Following experiments with launching and recovering small aeroplanes using the USS Los Angeles (ZR-3), the USA designed the Akron and Macon with internal hangars able to house a number of Curtiss F9C Sparrowhawk biplane fighters. The fighters were launched and recovered using a "trapeze" mechanism

USS Akron in Flight

This leads us to our first point, the carrier will be slow moving and extremely heavy so it would not lend itself to heavier-than-air flight. However airships are excellent for lifting large loads at slower speeds. They also do not disrupt the airflow around themselves so would be better for landing and taking off from.

In earth conditions:

The USS Enterprise weighs 94,780 tons.

1000 cubic feet of helium can lift 65.82 lbs.

So we need 2 879 975 000 cubic feet of helium.

The carrier itself is 2106 feet long and 1522 feet wide so if we make the balloon the same size as the carrier that gives us a helium balloon 2106 feet long, 1522 feet wide and 900 feet high

That's a damn big balloon! There's no complete blocker on building it though, it would be expensive, slow, and vulnerable but it certainly could be done if enough money was thrown at it.

In our hypothetical world

The gravity is 0.6 earth standard, that will make the same change to the weight:

The USS Enterprise now weighs 56,868 tons.

The atmospheric density is hard to calculate for as the helium will also be compressed more if the pressure rises. Lets say the atmosphere has earth pressure but increased density. In that case Helium has 50% more effective lifting power and 1000 cubic feet of helium can now lift 98.73lbs.

So we now need 1,151,990 cubic feet of helium.

That now gives us a helium balloon 2106 feet long, 1522 feet wide and 359 feet high

As you can see the altered conditions of your world make things much easier.

But what about the weight of the ballon?

The weight of the lifting gas itself is already included in the buoyancy figures so can be discounted. The balloon structure itself will have a noticeable weight but it will still be a tiny fraction of the weight of the aircraft carrier so while it would need to be allowed for if someone were designing this for real it will not make large changes to these figures which are illustrative anyway.

Tim B
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  • The Avengers carrier was exactly what I first thought about when reading this question :P I'm crunching numbers to see if it's doable. Nice one! - Btw, you mention the Enterprise weighs 94,780 tons, but that's the displacement, not the weight. – mechalynx Oct 07 '14 at 12:32
  • Don't forget the lesser gravity at work here. 0.6g should allow for some interesting stuff. – Danny Reagan Oct 07 '14 at 12:33
  • you're not including the weight of the balloon itself in your calculations – Colin Pickard Oct 07 '14 at 12:33
  • @DannyReagan Yes, excellent point. I've added a section on that now :) – Tim B Oct 07 '14 at 12:39
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    @ColinPickard You're right, I've added a section to discuss that. – Tim B Oct 07 '14 at 12:39
  • Rhett Allain from Wired started some back-of-the-envelope calculations for the S.H.I.E.L.D Helicarrier from The Avengers. There are some other problems he didn't consider - increasing the size of the rotors would increase the speed at the tips, exacerbating the existing problems with wave drag on the advancing rotor and stalling behind. I imagine it would be impossible to take off or land too because of the ground wash effect – Colin Pickard Oct 07 '14 at 12:58
  • On my previous comment, it seems I'm wrong - the displacement for a floating object is equal to its weight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_%28fluid%29 – mechalynx Oct 07 '14 at 13:26
  • @ivy_lynx Yes, sorry I meant to reply earlier. The two are indeed equal. – Tim B Oct 07 '14 at 13:31
  • Pandora's atmosphere had a fair bit of xenon and CO2 (anesthetic and toxic to humans, respectively, hence the exo-packs), making it 20% denser (combined with lower gravity meant free-falling wasn't as lethal). If you had a SF6/O2 atmosphere (a bit strange, but safe(?) for humans) you could increase atmospheric density by 3-4x. – Nick T Oct 07 '14 at 16:33
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    I'm way out of my depth here as physics go, but would this also be feasible using hot air for lift in lieu of helium? I mean, air is a lot cheaper than helium, you don't need to worry about leaks since you can always produce more on the spot, and you already have a nuclear reactor that will need cooling anyways. I just don't have any idea about the lift characteristics of hot air. – Mike L. Oct 07 '14 at 20:17
  • Have we ensured the reduced gravity doesn't impact the lift of Hydrogen (or is that in the hand waving 'same pressure')? – NPSF3000 Oct 07 '14 at 21:44
  • @NPSF3000 That's a good point actually, I think you are right. I'll think on it and make an update tomorrow. – Tim B Oct 07 '14 at 22:21
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edit: This answer arrives at the wrong conclusion because I made a mistake in my calculation of the craft's mass in Newtons. Spoiler alert: you can't make it fly this way. The rest of the analysis stands however, as far as I know. See the end of the post and the comments for details.

Lets crunch some numbers:

  • We can use displacement to figure out its mass:

    • The Enterprise has a displacement of 94,781 tonnes[1] at sea-level gravity on Earth, which gives it a weight of 56,900 tonnes at .6g gravity.
  • While less gravity would normally mean less density in the atmosphere, we'll go with the prescribed +50% density from the question. While that would make the air heavier, since the carrier is immersed in the atmospheric fluid, the forces cancel out (especially during flight - but it might have a bit of trouble trying to disengage the water surface - we'll disregard it for now).

Lifting it up

There are two obvious ways to lift an aircraft carrier-sized object in the air - one is using a standard airship approach (stick it under a huge balloon) and the other would be a VTOL approach[7]. Since others have answered on the airship case, I'll stick with the VTOL - I think it's preferable since:

  1. You want to modify an existing craft to fly
  2. You'd want to maintain the same functionality, thus you want to reuse the same facilities and structures as much as possible

Making an airship is probably a lot simpler however - VTOL is more complicated and costly, but it's damn cool.

  • The Enterprise has 8 reactors, giving a total of 210 MW[1] of power.
    • The Avengers carrier resembles a Fan-in-Wing setup[8] and this seems viable as an option for such a craft
    • Thrust vectoring would be an option, but it doesn't give us enough control to use downward-facing engines to move forward fast.
    • Although ideally we'd be able to use all fans to lift and move, the requirement for stability here is high - the carrier, unlike a helicopter or plane, can't pitch at all (doing so might cause people and planes to roll off - real carriers tie planes to the deck, but there's still a very small margin for pitching here). This means we'll have to use separate fans to control altitude and translate.

quadcopter

Lets see if our reactors have enough power to lift the carrier:

  • Since we're reusing existing reactors and the Enterprise used them for propulsion as well, we'll assume we have no fuel capacity and we can't use jet engines. That means we're using helicopter mechanics pretty much.
  • We need to generate thrust higher than its weight in order to lift it up, which means over 560 KN of thrust (edit: this is incorrect, I was off by 1000 because of a mistake in my units, it's actually 560 MN. See end of this answer.). Using this propeller thrust equation[14] and assuming:

    • air density at 150%
    • 45 MW used per propeller
    • fan diameter equal to the width of the craft: 80m

      we get:

      ((pi/2)⋅(80)^2⋅(1.225⋅1.5)⋅(45e6)^2)^(1/3) = 3.34 MN

      assuming I haven't made a horrible mistake in the calculations.

That gives us a single fan capable of lifting the carrier with a TWR of almost 6:1. We can't use a single fan though, so we'll split it between two, each with a diameter of 50m, for altitude, which gives us a total of 4.89 MN. We have to place these so that their thrust vector aligns with the center of mass of the craft, so probably near the middle.

So far we're using 90 MW, so we have room for our propulsion propellers. If we have two of them, mounted in the back-side, 10m in diameter each and pumping 25 MW to each of them, we get 565 KN of thrust for each, which is enough to move the craft easily (TWR of 2:1).

Summing up

That's a total of about 9.8 MN upwards thrust and 1.13 MN of forwards thrust at 140 MW of power, which is 2/3 of our capacity. We haven't factored in the weight of the propellers yet so lets do that.

Extrapolating from the size of the GE90 jet engine[15] which is the largest one yet, we arrive at a weight of 110 kN for each of the 50m fans and 22 kN for each of the 10m fans. Adjusting for the lower gravity and summing, that's a total of about 160 kN of extra weight due to the fans. At our 720 kN of mass and accounting for all the engines, we have a TWR upwards of 13.6 and forwards of 1.57. This means we'll rise very fast and have a high maximum altitude but will move forwards relatively slowly.

These calculations aren't exact (obviously) and I'm not an expert on this kind of thing, but it seems that, if you're willing to deal with the extra engineering challenge of making it a VTOL, it should be possible at a lower gravity and higher air density. You could of course adjust the sizes to make better use of your power, but it depends on what you want to favor - flying or moving fast.

Demitri has found a horrible mistake I made. My original calculation of the mass of the craft in Newtons was off by 3 orders of magnitude (1000) which means everything after that is pretty much invalid. The engines would have to be about 100 times more powerful, even under lower gravity and higher atmospheric density to allow this craft to fly. Not sure what to do with the answer except note that the conclusion is incorrect. I'll leave it as it is so the overall post isn't confusing.

According to Demitri's corrections, with the correct mass of $558 MN$ for the carrier, the power required to lift it is $172 GW$, which far exceeds the capacity of the carrier's reactors.

mechalynx
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  • There is a moment when scaling up some device, when further increase in lifting power (in our case) would require increase in weight that will completely negate the added power. I think battleship crosses that line. – Barafu Albino Oct 07 '14 at 19:42
  • Imagine the wind required to hold aloft 50.000 tonnes? When attempting to start, it will blow water from under the ship, making a dent in the water surface, after that the water will crush on the blades from above. – Barafu Albino Oct 07 '14 at 19:44
  • @BarafuAlbino My calculations might be off, but unless you show me a calculation of the TWR changing enough to make it impossible to lift, at .6g and +50% air pressure, the upwards TWR is over 13 - it can lift itself up easily. I don't understand your second point completely - assuming it does create high wind speeds, I don't think it would be in excess of what the craft as a whole, or its propellers can handle. Everyone would have to be inside and the ship may not handle storms well, but this is a question about how to make it fly - I didn't say this is not an engineering challenge. – mechalynx Oct 07 '14 at 19:56
  • Imagine that hovership takes off from a still sea. To rise up, it will need full lifting power from the beginning. The wind from the propeller will push the water down and to the sides, from under the ship, this will make the ship to lower, below water level, and fans will start sucking water into them because water will not move away in a neat bowl-like fashion. Imagine drone starting off in a box with thin sand, and you will see the problem. – Barafu Albino Oct 07 '14 at 20:10
  • Your calculations are probably right, but they assume fan blades to be made of infinitely sturdy material. I say such propellers simply can not be build at all - they will either loose blades, or be so thick and reinforced that their own weight will exceed the lifting force. It is not a question of motor power at all. – Barafu Albino Oct 07 '14 at 20:15
  • @BarafuAlbino The calculations where quite hard to make already - there's not much information online on how to build such a thing in the first place and I'm far from an expert so there's probably lots of strange assumptions in there. If I understand you properly, you're saying that because it will push the water down, it's effective altitude for its power will rise, thus causing it to drop lower, possibly low enough for the water level to reach the fans. That is possible, but at a 13+ TWR, couldn't it take off fast enough? This is rocket-level TWR, helicopters have close to 4 I think. – mechalynx Oct 07 '14 at 20:23
  • I don't believe you can get that kind of thrust from a rotor made of real-world materials. That doesn't rule out doing it with a bunch of smaller rotors, though. – Loren Pechtel Oct 07 '14 at 20:46
  • @LorenPechtel I was probably influenced by all the Avengers pics and I did want to get the calculations over with, so I went with the smallest possible number. The formula is right there if anyone wants to take a shot at it - my primary concern was to see if it was possible at all. One one of the many calculators I tried online (because I don't trust myself with this stuff), it told me the fan blades would reach supersonic speeds at anything above 100rpm :P I just assume this would be closer to a turbine fan than a wind-tunnel fan. That's why I chose the GE90 to extrapolate size. – mechalynx Oct 07 '14 at 20:49
  • As the others point out, there seems to be a bunch of engineering problems building rotors of that size. However, you do have up to 210MW of electric power available (and I imagine you could get significantly more if you were just after thermal power), wouldn't it help to ditch the whole fan idea and go straight for nuclear-powered thermal turbojets? It would certainly help with the thrust vectoring and scale the engines down, if nothing else. – Mike L. Oct 07 '14 at 21:08
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    @MikeL. I thought turbojets where fuel-based, that's why I went with fans. Couldn't having more small fans instead of the 2 massive ones solve the size issue? As I said above, the only reason I went with 2 was convenience in calculating things - there's plenty of power left and calculating for smaller fans is easy. – mechalynx Oct 07 '14 at 21:11
  • @ivy_lynx Well, turbojets are usually fuel-based, but that's just because burning something flammable is a very convenient way of heating up the air and getting it to expand, which is where the magic happens. If you have megawatts of thermal power, you could just heat the air up directly and thus get a thermal turbojet. Although admittedly, my only experience with thermal turbojets is from Kerbal Space Program, where sticking them onto a huge nuclear reactor to make it fly is an option:) – Mike L. Oct 07 '14 at 21:14
  • @MikeL. KSP has thermal turbojets? You mean RAPIER? I only remember the nuclear thruster being explicitly nuclear, but it's been a while. Anyway, you're probably right about why turbojets use fuel, but I didn't dig that deep - the final post hides the many hours I spend scouring online to make this work, so even if I even thought about it, it was brief. I might update it for calculations using turbojets, but I'm burned out on trying to engineer flying carriers for today :P – mechalynx Oct 07 '14 at 21:19
  • @ivy_lynx Well, Interstellar mod has thermal turbojets that run off thermal power from a microwave receiver or an on-board nuclear reactor. The advantage from using them in this case is that it would take care of cooling the reactor (because you no longer have the seawater to take care of that) and give you thrust vectoring and a much more compact package. However, my thermodynamics is not good enough to let me estimate what kind of thrust you could get from eight reactors like that. – Mike L. Oct 07 '14 at 21:25
  • @MikeL. I'm not sure that kind of technology exists and good thing you reminded me about cooling the reactor - that didn't even cross my mind xD - might have to circulate water through the hull or something. However, I dropped thrust vectoring because it shouldn't require much - unlike an aircraft, it can't really pitch, it only needs to stabilize and it can turn by switching the left and right fans. Honestly, I think the reactor overheating is now a bigger issue than the fan size :P – mechalynx Oct 07 '14 at 21:32
  • @ivy_lynx +1 for doing it differently, my friend. Don't forget the atmosphere and gravity considerations. – Danny Reagan Oct 08 '14 at 11:56
  • @DannyReagan they're in there - the weight and atmosphere density are both taken into consideration (you can see the density in the formula and the weight is explicitly calculated before that using .6g) – mechalynx Oct 08 '14 at 11:57
  • @ivy_lynx Ah, missed it the first read. Thanks! – Danny Reagan Oct 08 '14 at 12:05
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    Accepted for showing the partial feasibility of modding the Enterprise as she is. (obviously, a lot of quality salvage would be needed to build the turbines) I must admit to being torn between blimp and VTOL, but I'm afraid the cool factor won out. :D – Danny Reagan Oct 08 '14 at 16:15
  • @DannyReagan don't forget that the turbines can also be made smaller if you use more of them and the suggestions in the comments for jet engines might also be workable. Overall, since the Avengers one is fan-based (pun intended), I'd assume few eyes would bat at another carrier using fans. – mechalynx Oct 08 '14 at 16:20
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    "there are two obvious ways to lift an aircraft carrier" - no. There are zero obvious ways to lift an aircraft carrier. You're a madman! – corsiKa Oct 20 '14 at 21:31
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    You made a mistake in your calculations: you used $1/g$ instead of $g$. So you need about 2000 times as much power as you used (to 1 significant figure). – Demi Apr 29 '16 at 07:16
  • @Demetri Um, where exactly? It's been a year and a half since I wrote this, I don't even remember what I did, let alone where I used $g$. – mechalynx Apr 30 '16 at 01:37
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    @ivy_lynx $94,781~\text{tonnes} * 1000~\frac{\text{kg}}{\text{tonnes}} * (9.81 \frac{m}{s^2} * 0.6) = 558\text{MN}$ – Demi Apr 30 '16 at 02:31
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    @ivy_lynx Your actual mistake was a units mix up: you left out the $1000~\frac{\text{kg}}{\text{tonnes}}$ factor. – Demi Apr 30 '16 at 02:37
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    @ivy_lynx So you actually need $172~\text{GW}$ of power. – Demi Apr 30 '16 at 02:40
  • @Demetri Thanks. Upvoted your comments for visibility and made a note in the post. I'm not going to strikethrough all the text or delete it or anything because it's an old answer on an old post, but it should be fairly obvious what the mistake is. – mechalynx Apr 30 '16 at 03:19
  • Why go for VTOL? STOL or even a long runway to build up light seems more reasonable; its not like you're going to run out of sea. Extend the flight deck on either side to make wings and attach jet/propeller engines such that they can be angled. Using NASA's lift formula, you need a speed of 167 fps to get the ship into the air, assuming 400k sqft wing area. Note: I'm not too familiar with Imperial units, so there are probably conversion errors – nzaman Jul 18 '16 at 07:46
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Yes, an airship version of the USS Enterprise is practical. It would be several times the size of the Hindenburg but well within reach of modern technology.

The main constraints would be:

  • Weight. Without a 100% rebuild, the USS Enterprise is far too heavy to make a good gondola design. You would need a staggering amount of lifting gas. Not impossible though, and modern airship designs incorporate aerodynamic improvements, which you could take advantage of by using the copious electrical power from the nuclear reactor to propel it (think 100+ modern jet engines)
  • Aircraft operations. Assuming it carries the USS Enterprise's full complement of aircraft, a substantial part of it must be dedicated to aircraft operations. If you replaced the Enterprise's flight deck with a gigantic Zeppelin structure, you could operate from a runway on top, or change your aircraft to support cradle launch (this was done with biplanes, not sure if it would work for modern jet fighters)
  • Power. A large part of your weight budget has to go to the nuclear reactor and jet fuel for the aircraft.
  • Crew accommodation. not a problem if you keep most of the original structure intact.
  • Operations - You would need massive new mooring facilities around the world for maintenance.

Obviously the airship route requires the support of a full shipyard, including a lot of facilities custom designed for the project. All of it well in reach of current technology, if a little expensive.

EDIT: With the increased density and reduced gravity, the proposed airship would be about 3 times longer than the proposed US Army heavy lift cargo airship, so manoeuvrability and docking should not be too bad:

US Army heavy lift cargo airship

Colin Pickard
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You would have to change the power supply. The reactor on the CVN-65 is water cooled using around 50gpm. SOURCE This works because the carrier is sitting on literally a sea of coolant. This allows the carrier to replenish cool water and expel waste heat quickly and easily with out having to maintain a large reserve of coolant on board. The need for the coolant would make nuclear power a poor choice for a large air ship like this.

Now if you have something like a ZPM you could make the types of changes that would be needed to make the Enterprise airworthy. Another issue is going to be keeping lift. Lets assume that 250knots would be sufficient for lift to keep the ship airborne. That is going to make the flight deck incredibly hazardous. Anything over 50-60 knots is probably going to be unmanageable for both aircraft landing and taking off, and crew working on the deck.

So you are going to need a hover capability. This would allow the ship to go into near stationary mode for deck work then resume normal flight speeds.

You will also need to make the control tower able to drop into the deck for flight speed mode. Something more interesting for full speed launches might be to drop the planes more like bombs allowing the planes to accellerate to flight speed after they have been dropped. This would allow for a much more rapid deployment of a squadron as well.

Chad
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So you want to write that a crafty crew in dire need made thier ship to fly. I think it is doable in 3 steps.

  1. They cut off the upper deck from the hull, reinforce it to be able to withstand weight, and mount all the equipment they would need in flight on the deck or under it. Modern ship can literally be peeled like an egg, as hull is not the integral part.
  2. They sew a lot of ballons from I don't know what material. They provide heating to the balloons.
  3. They tie balloons to the deck and get themselves something of a big flying raft.
  4. They are lucky to have appropriate winds.

Now, to the problems.

  • In big modern ships, all fixtures on the top are connected not to the desk, but to the internal structure. They will have to re-weld it all to the desk.
  • Energy. Not only electricity, ship has a network of pipes, supplying pressurised steam for all systems.
  • A shot from main weapon literally makes a battleship to shake and move in the water sideways. In case of flying, in will rock violently.

After all, I think, it is doable, but building several small zeppelins from ship's parts would be easier and more effective.

P.S. How happens that your planet has lighter gravity but thicker atmosphere? I though these things are connected. This although means that locals will invent balloon-flying nearly as early as sailing, which means they may end up with elaborate ships. They can literally jump from cliffs with umbrellas!

Barafu Albino
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    My world plays around with the laws of physics. A lot. Its part of the plot and stuff. +1 for jumping off cliffs with umbrellas, made me laugh. :D – Danny Reagan Oct 08 '14 at 11:58
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I did a funny calculation that I want to share. Let's take a ship called "Oasis of the Seas" as example. Its gross tonnage is 225,282. We can estimate it's cargo volume as GT/0.32 = 700 000 m3 = 700 000 000 litres. One litre of helium on Earth can lift 1 gramm of weight besides itself. In your condition + heating let's say it is 4 gramms. 2800 000 000 gramms make 2 800 tonns of lifted weight.
This much lift will the crew get, if they fill cargo volume with hot balloons. Unfortunately, "Oasis of the seas" weights 100,000 tonns. But crew will have fun. Switching to hydrogen will double the lifting power, but remove the fun.

Barafu Albino
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