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need a bit help with an Elf species I am making.

I am thinking about making them family with fairies who is in my world; some type of dragonfly. of course, I have no idea this is possible.

My Elf almost looks like what most people see as 'Elves'but I did make them with weaker bones and is an ancestor of the Angels which technically makes them Nephilims who later evolved naturally into the common elf we all know and this is my reason why they can do magic and is near immortal. I do need help with the other side of the family tree, the none-Angel side.

do you think it is possible for a dragonfly or other type of insect (spiders/scorpions, butterfly, wasp, etc) to evolve into a 'caveman' elf who looked just human enough to have kids with the Angels? is it even possible for an insect to look like a humanoid race or do I need to look into other species of animals to make the elf family/species tree?

don't know if you need more info than this. I will add more if asked.

EDIT: I think I need to add this since it has come up a few times.

  • the Angel in my world is based after the Biblical angels and yet have their own twist. they work for a higher entity. the history my sister and I made to them are not important to this question.

  • Angels/Fallen are not made neutrally. they are experiments solely created to serve. Angel cannot reproduce with each other since they are sexless.

  • how do angels then have kids? Since they are created by a god-like creature, they do have the power to bend the logic to a certain point. right now my sister and I are talking about they created Nephilim by giving a small part of themselves(Magic, blood, or a kiss maybe?) to women, and poof! she is pregnant with a half-angel child. we kinda got the idea of the famous virgin birth of Mary.

EDIT 2

more info

  • the angel of my world is called Natoque. see it as a species name. the name "angel" and "demon/fallen" is something there came after the rebellion and they are still the same species. just parted into two nations.
  • I'm trying to make the family tree of the Elf race as scientific as possible so they have evolved naturally to the species who later get kids with the angel species. I don't hold the same standard to the Angel species due to them being created by other forces.
  • How can Angels have kids with humans/Elves who is outside their genus. when it comes to the Angels; nearly everything is possible and that is why I am not that concerned about them or the logic behind them.

if there is more thing I should add, please tell me.

Edit 3: so after some links and answers, I've gotten I concluded that it might not be the best idea to make the Elf in a family with insects due to their anatomy. although I am still not sure what species I should link them to. the User named @Daron did say this best;

"I think now is a good time to start a new question, that includes all the stuff we talked about here, and probably doesn't mention angels at all, since everything to do with the angels can be explained by magic. All in all, it's not clear what you're asking for to me, and the main problem seems to be "how can we have tiny flying sentient humanoids?"

if you are still willing to help me out with this, I appreciated it. and thank you for you who helped me out this far. I am still looking for the answers but I am glad for the information I have at the moment.

  • was asked for more info on the fairies and the Angels, but since the Fairies are out of the family tree and the Angels are not that important in my search due to they came into the family tree later in what I'm searching for.

family tree update enter image description here

FableSisters
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    I don't think there's any "technical" meaning for Nephilim. Dang word only comes up two or three times in the original source, and in most translations doesn't come up at all! – Daron Nov 02 '20 at 13:57
  • "My Elf almost looks like what most people see as 'Elves'" so they all look like Will Ferrel? – The Square-Cube Law Nov 02 '20 at 14:27
  • I have added four more tags to your question. – Daron Nov 02 '20 at 14:34
  • I don't know about the angels in your religion, but I for one have always imagined angels as being relatively big, much bigger than insects. Human-sized, at least. (In the Bible, Jacob famously wrestles with an angel. Many painters have made pictures depicting the event, and maybe that's why I have this impression that angels are relatively big.) – AlexP Nov 02 '20 at 14:53
  • "so they all look like Will Ferrel?"

    maybe the Cavemen elves did? or 'Christmas' Elf is a subspecies to the other Elf? both ideas is possible if you ask me

     – FableSisters Nov 02 '20 at 15:19
  • I believe Square-Cube was referring to the fact that the fae (fairy, fair folk) have a lot of diversity from the god-like Tuatha Dé Danann to the Sith (Sleagh Maith) of Scotland to Sir Author Conan Doyle's view of them as more ethereal clouds. It may help to point out specific examples of what your fairy are (linking to earlier questions, an image, referencing specific examples in legends). Or just focus on what type of insectoid could evolve to roughly human shape (and include the environmental factors as that will be a heavy condition of any evolutionary path) – LinkBerest Nov 03 '20 at 02:12
  • Because magic is a perfectly valid answer in a universe filled with magic. – John Nov 04 '20 at 03:49

4 Answers4

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Angels do not reproduce biologically.

Nothing scientific can be said about the evolution of angels (evolution was originally the only tag in this question). From a scientific point of view angels do not exist. This is the same as saying there is no empirical evidence to believe angels exist. Even if they did exist we know nothing about their evolutionary biology, so it's a moot point.

In general two different species cannot reproduce. A horse and a donkey can just about manage it. An insect cannot reproduce with an ape, unless the insect somehow evolved into an ape beforehand. This has never been observed.

That is good for you!

This is your get out of jail free card. Since angels are not real, you get to decide the rules. They might be able to reproduce with any animal in a completely nonbiological manner, simply by pointing a finger and declaring it to be so.

I think there is already a story like that, but I cannot currently remember the name.

How can angels reproduce with animals but not each other? Your angels are sexless and based on the Judeo-Christian ones. Those guys are often described as made of spirit or holy fire. So they contribute some of that stuff to an animal host, who does all the bodily work.

Daron
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    Two different natural species may or may not be able to produce fertile offspring. In animals it is relatively rare (but it definitely happens, sometimes on a large scale); in plants it is quite common. (For example, almost all species of the genus Canis can hybridize and produce fertile offspring, to the point where there are large populations of unclear descent.) All bets are off when supernatural beings become involved. Supernatural beings being supernatural, what they can and cannot do is beyond the power of mortal people to comprehend. – AlexP Nov 02 '20 at 15:01
  • I added some more info about the Angels in my world since I could see that was needed. – FableSisters Nov 02 '20 at 15:25
  • @FableSisters I don't think the new info makes a huge difference! – Daron Nov 02 '20 at 17:40
  • hmm, you might have a point. unfortunate... that is all I have at the current moment – FableSisters Nov 02 '20 at 17:56
  • @FableSisters Perhaps you can give other examples of how much "hard science" you want in your world. Obviously there is some "power to bend logic" so the amount is not 100%. – Daron Nov 02 '20 at 21:27
  • @FableSisters From your second edits, I see you want the elves to have hard science, but not the angels. In that case the big problem comes at the very start of the family tree. Something insect-sized cannot have a big enough brain to be smart like a person. This is not stated explicitly but I presume your Fae are mentally more like humans than dragonflies. – Daron Nov 03 '20 at 11:50
  • it is there I am not fully sure myself. can an insect evolve to be intelligent or even be bi-pedal? I know the size is kinda possible since we do have a fossil of giant insects in our archives, but I am more concerned with what you said; the brain. IF it is possible, then I have to figure out what type of insect it should be which is a whole other can of worms. – FableSisters Nov 03 '20 at 11:58
  • What is the "FAE" in your family tree? Are they tiny sentient winged creatures? Or are they just normal insects mentally and physically? – Daron Nov 03 '20 at 12:04
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    @FableSisters there's actually already a question on intelligent insect evolution – LinkBerest Nov 05 '20 at 03:07
  • @daron the red one means I still have no idea who they look like or this will be the canon family tree. The names are the only thing I have at the moment and is hoping to get a little help with further ideas here – FableSisters Nov 05 '20 at 05:33
  • @FableSisters Okay. I think now is a good time to start a new question, that includes all the stuff we talked about here, and probably doesn't mention angels at all, since everything to do with the angels can explained by magic. All in all it's not clear what you're asking for to me, and the main problem seems to be "how can we have tiny flying sentient humanoids?" – Daron Nov 05 '20 at 16:57
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Well, do your elves need to be real elves? Or does it suffice for them to look like elves? What if they are some human+, with some genes from whatever?

Tapping into what this lady wrote, they might be some posthuman, very long-living, somewhat strange creatures with a shared subconsciousness, limited telepathy, abilities to warp reality, etc. But they look like elves to those who don't know better.

Oleg Lobachev
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Angels are agents of creation.

God was the architect of Creation. But there was a lot of work to do, and various types of angels were the ones that did it. Like a general contractor following the plans of an architect, the angels who actually carried out creation had more or less autonomy in what exactly they did.

Nephilim were produced by a particular subset of angels who were creatively pursuing their directives. This might be the same task group responsible for dragonflies, mayflies and dobsonflies among other things. The Nephilim were created using the same basic source code with the result that various hybrids are possible. Eventually this gave rise to your elves.

Willk
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  • in my world; 'God' was not the original creator of the Angels. they are experiments. I can add the full story if it helps, but at the moment I am avoiding it due to it being a bit complicated and long – FableSisters Nov 05 '20 at 05:29
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As far as angels are very powerful beings in any way, I would assume they can mate with any creature and have offsprings, even creating a new specie. In fact, Tolkien's elves are a specie with angelic qualities, but that's besides the point.

The second relevant information would be that angels are related to a god, and generally humans are similar to God. Therefore angels might also produce sth similar to a human (an elf).

I'd picture it as if a human would pick a human cell, splice it with an insect one and clone it. What you'd have is an NGO human.

What insect genes would be used? It doesn't matter, they could be invisible or have evolved over time.

Tomás
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  • I am looking for the species before the Angel came into the picture. you can say I am looking for the first sign of their kind like when we found out we are in the same family tree as the apes, if that makes sense – FableSisters Nov 09 '20 at 18:51