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In a Victorian city on an apocalyptic world, a haberdasher has gained social power. All things pertaining to the Victorian life circa 1880 would be proper here, save for the equine industry. He has established a high-quality reputation providing quality products and services, generating word-of-mouth recommendations. For his craft, he interfaces with assorted artisans and offers custom fittings or consultations, further elevating his standing among customers. I’m trying to determine which connection is the most logical pathway a haberdasher would use to discreetly propagate his blackmail and extortion communiques.

His role is a purveyor of intelligence for the underworld. I’m trying to avoid obvious interfaces with seedy thugs and lowlifes which could tarnish his carefully manicured reputation. He needs an interface which can travel in both those social strata unaffected. What would be a typical connection for his profession that could serve this purpose; who he could be seen with and no eyebrows would raise?

There are five cities in the world, each with their own major markets and products, networked by train and airship. I’m basically looking for a liaison this haberdasher would have with vast reach and would be likely corruptible.

The goal is building a "door" in my criminal underworld society that can safely transport intelligence without getting dirty. Think of it as designing a spaceship that need a door to keep bad air out, how do you engineer that? Well, my spaceship is a society, and my door is a courier, and the "bad air" is a soiled reputation by being seen with anyone unsavory. My world is not a spaceship, it's a society. Doors look different, but they're still just doors.

Vogon Poet
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  • Either this question is entirely story based or I don't understand it. Are you just asking what sort of person can deliver a blackmail note without it being traceable? And you want to profile which professions are well-travelled but "corruptible"? – KerrAvon2055 Sep 12 '23 at 23:12
  • So, what are the communication channels? Is there a postal service? Is there a telegraph? Are there delivery boys? (Apologies for the gender terminology, but we're talking pseudo-Victorian here.) In any sufficiently developed society, delivering messages is a profession, the members of which can be expected to be seen visiting the residences of both princes and paupers. Is there a reason it has to be more complicated than that? – KerrAvon2055 Sep 12 '23 at 23:33
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    I'm with @KerrAvon2055 here. He's rich, he has footmen to deliver messages. Or he can hire a messenger -- they had public messengers for hire in Victorian times. Or he can have a business relationship with a policeman. Or with a versatile supplier. And so on. P.S. A haberdasher (and a tradesman in general) does not have clients; he has customers. On the other hand, an architect (and a professional in general) does not have customers; he has clients. The difference is that a customer pays a price, whereas a client pays a fee. – AlexP Sep 12 '23 at 23:35
  • Maybe I watch too much TV but do OC actually use USPS to inform a hitman where the next dinner a mark is going to attend? – Vogon Poet Sep 12 '23 at 23:46
  • Are you saying he would have his own “Mercury” to drop a package at the station, and hide the key under the 5th seat on Southgate? It seems a very close relationship; a hire would be different every time. The supplier of some sort is probably best – Vogon Poet Sep 12 '23 at 23:55
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    On-topic world rules are independent of all stories. Off-topic story help depends entirely on circumstance and narrative necessity. Do we suggest a policeman? Thee are situations/circumstances/locations a policeman would be inappropriate. Messenger? Ditto. Priest? Ditto. Tax collector? Ditto. I can come up with too many choices (see Help) for crossing the social strata. Provide us with all the details of one such circumstance to and I believe the Q would be on-topic. After you see how we select one, you can select the others. – JBH Sep 13 '23 at 00:05
  • So your villain needs to employ a minion / henchmen / servant / associate? A standard trope? The exact job title is would be as story based as your use of haberdasher. – Gault Drakkor Sep 13 '23 at 00:06
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    I'm sorry, but when reading your question, it feels like you're more trying to build the (back)story of a specific character than a more generalizable situation. It's because it's about someone making connections, and those are made on a more individual level. A better -but far from perfect- approach would be to tell your dashing haberdasher has a link with let's say a textile worker, how likely this worker can get access to the foreman's locker/office to put... Uh... Compromising documents :p. – Tortliena - inactive Sep 13 '23 at 00:10
  • What is a generic haberdasher? (Story based) occupations that pass (story based) secret notes have (story based) motives and beliefs, depend on (story based) circumstances and opportunities, and require (story based) associates. I apologize that I've run out of patience, but VTC:Too Story-Based. Please use the following rule when writing questions: you must strip 100% of your story away from the question. If you have nothing left, it wasn't a worldbuilding question. Haberdashers, sending secret notes, and participating in extortion are part of the story, not a universal function of the world. – JBH Sep 13 '23 at 00:27
  • The reason I asked none of those (story based) things is because the story is my job. It was provided so it didn’t need to be answered. The story is given, as you have shown. The world of a typical haberdasher is what is asked: the part of his world which could do the story bits. ie., “My cat chases mice in the kitchen and is stepped on. What people might logically step on him?” I gave story, I ask world. – Vogon Poet Sep 13 '23 at 00:36
  • @VogonPoet If most of your question's content is about chocolate, fruits, flour and eggs there's a lot of chance you are asking about food rather than motorbikes ️. It's about the same here : If all core components of your question is about story writing, it is very likely asking how to well, write a story . – Tortliena - inactive Sep 13 '23 at 00:50
  • @Tortliena I am not sure it’s a statistical thing as such, but more related to how good answers must be formed. If answers must provide story, then the question is a story question. If the question asks connections typical to occupation X in society Y (this example); the world of occupation X is a world thing, and somewhere, has an answer. I have carefully ensured none of the Negative items are checked on the perfect question checklist, and no actions or events are asked, & no characters are asked – Vogon Poet Sep 13 '23 at 00:58
  • @VogonPoet No. That's 100% a story-based question because no matter how you spin it, you're asking why the haberdasher will make a choice: the choice of one occupation to run his/her messages over another. Choices are always off-topic here. There is no single occupation choice that's valid for any and all circumstances your haberdasher may encounter in your story. I'm sorry, Vogon, but if your story is involved in the question in any way other than to provide some fun and irrelevant backstory, it's off-topic. – JBH Sep 13 '23 at 01:49
  • Keep in mind that taking the choice out of the mix often makes the quesiton on-topic. "Which choice would my haberdasher make?" is always off-topic. "My haberdasher is using a policeman to run his messages between the King and a bum over by the north hill semaphore. What limitations would the policeman have?" probably would be on-topic because the policeman isn't making choices, we're simply analyzing the policeman's resources and characteristics against a specific set of circumstances. Note that questions about individuals are always hard here because individuals are unpredictable. – JBH Sep 13 '23 at 01:53
  • Finally, it's important to understand why we don't help people write stories. Stories (when written properly) always have underlying motivations that control the story. The whole point of worldbuilding is to define the framework where those motivations can be expressed. Those motivations create narrative necessity that will force the answers to be something other than the brainstorming answers can produce. In short, we can't give you a best answer because narrative necessity trumps it. Thus, we do not answer story questions. – JBH Sep 13 '23 at 02:01
  • I really believe I understand all of this but what is imperceptible is the line between the choice an engineer makes in placing starship nacelles under the “spaceships” tag and the choice a tradesman makes in placing trusted relations under the “culture” and “society” tags. They really appear identical; engineer/tradesmen all make “choices” about the world. Literally everything you have written today fits a question asking a ship design. Only the chooser is renamed. – Vogon Poet Sep 13 '23 at 02:38
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    Your edit obsoletes everything. The answer, all the comments, the down votes, and the close votes. I'm not sure what you're expecting us to do. Your comparison doesn't make sense, either. If the querent asking about nacells is asking for aesthetic reasons ("would the ship look better?") it would be quickly closed. If asking for engineering purposes ("given the current design, would the nacelles on the bottom produce too much stress?") it would remain open. The choices of characters in your story are always off-topic because they're always unpredictable or subject to narrative necessity. – JBH Sep 13 '23 at 03:13
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    @VogonPoet Please don't invalidate existing answers with your edits. Ask another question instead. – Monty Wild Sep 13 '23 at 03:28
  • @VogonPoet [tag:culture], [tag:society], [tag:psychology] and so on are harder to treat here, because most people (querents and reviewers) make the confusion between what is about a single character and what is actually managed by social sciences, among other things. There has been a post long time ago about that, you should check it out . – Tortliena - inactive Sep 13 '23 at 12:24
  • @Tortliena It's not objectively hard to worldbuild those tags, we make it hard for lack of effort & I can't wrap my head around the 2-dimensional thinking that has reduced this WB:SE down to "Fictional physics and tech" as stated, castrating the site's creativity. The "story-based" metric's proper use has already been posted, I need not waste any time on it. The Oak of Life that cursed Jim is story; Oak trees are world. Bob the marked haberdasher-in-hiding is story; haberdashers are world. (Chat or Factory Floor if you must reply) – Vogon Poet Sep 13 '23 at 14:20

3 Answers3

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A priest

A priest, especially of lower or middle rank (so no bishop etc.) is the ideal candidate. The clerus is usually considered their own caste and associates with people of high and low rank and even criminals. They are educated but still have professional interest in people of low rank, as they are the herd he cares for. Also confidential talks with a priest aren't anything suspicious.
But also people of high rank belong to their herd and need talking to to secure funds for the church.
Even known criminals would not be an odd sight with a priest as they might be still worried for their immor(t)al soul. The italian mafia for example is known for that behaviour.
As for being corruptible: priest are people with a degree of power, people with power tend to be corruptible and priests are not immune to it, if you just take a look into present or history. Why this specific priest is corrupt is up to you to write.

datacube
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  • I had already written him long ago, never knew where "Joachim" fit in to the puzzle! Amazing! «Father Grigori pleaded gravely, “Joachim! Do not do this! I beseech you, this is not the way!” The cantor quickly raised his pistol at the Father. “The land shall be UTTERLY emptied. UTTERLY spoiled; Dominus enim locutus est verbum hoc.” “Joa, come pray with me. If God’s will be this city shall fall, His timing will not be upset by a prayer.” The Father lowered to his knees, kissed his shawl, and commenced praying through tremulous breaths.» – Vogon Poet Sep 13 '23 at 10:00
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If i understand this question correctly, you're looking for a person who would both have contact with an upperclass haberdasher and be able to communicate without raising question with both lower and upperclass castes?

If thats the case, what about a ship captain? If they were military or from a passenger ship they could talk to both lower class sailors and the upperclass traveling.

And while it might be a stretch, a haberdasher could have a contact with a ship captain in order to facilitate more reliable shipments and source more uncommon materials.

Saxionkin
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  • For the record, the Help Center explains that you should answer well-asked questions. SE uses a one-specific-question/one-best-answer model, which we carefully bend by permitting finite list answers, but this question doesn't meet that expectation. If you can't explain why your answer is better than every other possible answer (and in this case there are at least dozens), then you shouldn't have answered the unprepared question. Also, remember the [help/on-topic] teaches that we help build worlds, not tell stories. – JBH Sep 13 '23 at 00:21
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    I had never considered this. If not the captain, then a stevedore who would directly handle cargo. Very logical! – Vogon Poet Sep 13 '23 at 00:24
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A high ranking policeman would be best. It's been done by everyone from Royalty to Mafia to do their shady deals without problems.

Kilisi
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