I wanted to create a world inhabited by sapient canine-like Furries, but I asked myself: is it possible in evolutionary and anthropological plans? My main question is about tails and fur. There's a big chance that tails would cease to exist very early if they do nothing to lead an individual to survive. However, they could be useful in social interaction, so it's also possible that natural selection will let tails to be. Fur on the other side, is a harder question. If they have fur, it will be easier for them to live in temperate and cold climate zones, which could be a barrier to developing sapience (I got fur, why do I need sapience to think of something that'll let me survive in this cold, if I'm already fine?), and can make them less furry (which I don't like :) ). Also the fur, and hence almost no sweating, can make them less competent in running long distances (bad for hunting). They could just form a better planning habit of hunting (it's even better for social development!), but it's still more favorable them to be less furry and just hunt like us. In which biological situation the specie can be an effective hunters and form the great society, yet still have fur?
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6I generally recommend coming here with a pre-formed idea to ask whether it isn't possible, not ask whether an idea is possible. Barring certain exceptions anything is possible. There are plenty of good arguments to be made which claim this is possible and plenty of good arguments to be made which claim this isn't, and therefore we can't give you a useful answer. I can give you a basic answer anyway but you shouldn't feel like you need to come here to get justification for your ideas. Provided it's believable to you/whoever's looking at the world, that's all that matters. – KEY_ABRADE Jan 01 '24 at 21:50
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A significant fraction of the population believes life was Designed, and that therefore worrying about such details is misguided. Of the remainder, a significant portion doesn't care how "realistic" your critters are. You're telling a story. Don't let the tiny fraction of people that can't apply the MST3K Mantra get in your way. There is plenty of precedent for anthropomorphs. (Indeed, anthropomorphic felines in particular seem to be popular...) – Matthew Jan 01 '24 at 21:53
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1Matthew, thanks for endorsing, though I want to create kinda able to appear in real-world critters for myself. I just feel like this is the rightest and best way for me – Victor Vincent Volk Jan 01 '24 at 22:00
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1VTC:Opinion-Based. We are barely starting to understand how humanity evolved, and what we do know is of the form, "we know X happened, so we postulate that it happened because of Y." We're a very long way from knowing enough about evolution to say, "X will happen because of Y." Worse, you're asking on a site that's really good at rationalizing what you want to happen, not so good at proving the truth of what might happen. C.F. Anatomically correct furry. – JBH Jan 01 '24 at 22:18
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3Wolves have fur, and they are able to run and to hunt just fine. – AlexP Jan 01 '24 at 22:50
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AlexP, yes, but they're hunting differently than early humans – Victor Vincent Volk Jan 01 '24 at 23:15
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1considering most vertebrates have tails, you don't need to worry about tails, the loss of tails in apes is poorly understood so you don't need to justify keeping them. – John Jan 01 '24 at 23:38
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Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. – Community Jan 02 '24 at 01:31
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Do you mean people with animal heads? It would be hard to get good symbolic representational language and the brains to process it into predictions, plans, and group coordination without the physiological capacity for a large vocabulary. – g s Jan 02 '24 at 16:57
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I've tried to justify 'furries' and failed before, part of the problem is not just that they have traits that don't quite make sense for humanoid build, but explaining how two different species evolved with sapience at the same time. Are they offshoots of an already near-sapient parent species, if so how did they diverge so drastically from each other in such a short time period? Are they completely independent species that just both happened to become sapient, then how did two manage to so perfectly match the other's exact convergent level and biases? – dsollen Jan 02 '24 at 17:43
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My best solution to the furry problem would be to cheat and add something beyond normal evolution causing it. That is to say either genetic engineering or some sort of mutating magic playing a role in the creation of the furry. Something that helped nudge evolution along the path you wanted. I've seen one comic that implied furries existed because humans engineered them and then went extinct. The furries having re-developed their own culture with circal 2000 technology and treating humanity as mythical lost gods in their creation myths for example. – dsollen Jan 02 '24 at 17:46
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@dsollen I've used a multi-species virus to explain a lot of mythical creatures on one of my books. The virus "mashed together" DNA from multiple creatures and that "DNA remix" got passed on to their descendants via their gametes, allowing species like mermaids and centaurs to come to be. It isn't realistic at all, but my goal there wasn't to be properly scientific, just scientific enough. – Mermaker Jan 02 '24 at 19:33
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@Mermaker so the mermaker finally confesses how he made his mermaids at last! As long as you confess it's not actually realistic yes I think such a virus can be utilized, readers are generally willing to give allot of suspension of disbelief for something like this so you never need much more then a handwave. In fact I was half tempted to tell OP the real answer is don't worry about trying to explain your furries with science since so few will question such a conceit, but that sort of invalidates OP's question heh. – dsollen Jan 02 '24 at 19:51
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@AlexP the question of fur and running comes down to one of how far you want to run; and how cold it will be. Humans are actually perhaps the best species out there for long distance running due to our lack of fur. The only species that can rival is is some sorts of sled dogs in very cold enviroments where overheating isn't as much of a problem. So yes a humanoid with fur will not be able to run as well as us. The real question is, do they need to? Were not even 100% sure why we lost our fur and when, it's possible a species doesn't need our level of long distance running to survive. – dsollen Jan 02 '24 at 20:03
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@dsollen: Yes, among mammals humans are long-distance running champions. It is not only lack of fur, it's a complex set of adaptations including cooling by sweating (which canides just don't do at all) and reduction of muscle mass to the point where the heart and lungs system can keep our muscles in aerobic mode. But it may be important to note that no other species has taken this route. (And, outside of mammals, ostriches are much better runners than us.) – AlexP Jan 02 '24 at 20:14
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In regard to fur I wouldn't worry too much about heat, it's easy enough to imply fur is very light and doesn't trap heat much, maybe combined with other heat loss strategies. The bigger danger is parasites living in the fur, a danger that grows with civilization and how closely they live together. Evolving in a colder climate partially fixes both issues with fur, perhaps having an evolutionary or culturally developed behavior for ridding one of parasites, like bathing, could help mitigate that risk some. – dsollen Jan 02 '24 at 20:14
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1@dsollen Well, that's one of my several types of mermaid. From surgical alteration to magic to very specific minded aliens, anything can be a good excuse to introduce a few mermaids to a setting. – Mermaker Jan 02 '24 at 20:31
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Make the tail have some useful function. E.g. for conveying emotions (tail-wagging, tail held high, low, between feet, ...). If the species does lots of hunting, nonspoken signals are very useful, e.g. the leader in a hunting group can signal "follow me" or "stay behind" to the hunters on the backside. The tail can also be nicely colored to be of visual appeal. – Sebastian Jan 04 '24 at 15:01
3 Answers
Evolution does not stop organisms from exhibiting traits if those traits aren't evolutionarily useful (see, for instance, vestigial organs); evolution stops organisms from exhibiting traits if those traits actively reduce the ability of individuals to pass those traits on. Take humans, for instance. A human born with six toes, blue eyes, and a star-shaped birthmark on their chest is going to pass those traits down, because six toes, blue eyes, and a star-shaped birthmark on your chest do not affect your ability to have babies. They're useless, mostly, but they aren't harmful. A human born with no brain, on the other hand, will not pass that trait down for obvious reasons.
And so it goes with these critters. There's nothing about tails or fur that stop tails and fur from being passed down. Chimpanzees, for instance, are completely covered in hair and nevertheless are very intelligent for the same reasons humans are intelligent; clearly, being insulated from one's environment does not get in the way of sapience. I see no reason a tail would either.

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5Tails are an extra organ, one that costs energy, can get in the way, and could be injured. Having a tail cut off in some farming accident would risk death for example. Unless tails provide non-trivial advantage they would prove costly enough to be gotten rid of. They would help with communication to an extent, but other social cues can develop so I'm not convinced the high cost of maintaining an extra limb could be justified for the social cues alone. – dsollen Jan 02 '24 at 17:36
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2@Mermaker the pefowl have their tails due to the handicap principal, as I referenced in another comment you responded to. That can work for the males, but it implies the females tails are smaller and less cumbersome then the males. Handicap principal only works if the handicap is mostly limited to the less selective (ie usually male) sex and not to the selective sex as well. Notice only male peacocks have vibrant impractical tales – dsollen Jan 02 '24 at 19:58
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8"A human born with no brain, on the other hand, will not pass that trait down for obvious reasons." I don't know, have you met a politician? – Zibbobz Jan 02 '24 at 20:27
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@dsollen And in that sense they do reduce the ability of individuals to pass some traits on. I suppose I should've described it as a net outcome; that tail may also be useful to more of an extent than it's detrimental. – KEY_ABRADE Jan 03 '24 at 21:04
Because of Sexual Selection and many other evolutionary influences.
Natural Selection is not the only mechanism that affects the overall evolution of a species.
"Survival of the Fittest" is over-represented in general biological discourse, especially when the vast variety of species on this planet only really occurred after the ability for sexual selection was formed.
So in general, evolutionary outcomes are a combination of (not a comprehensive list):
- Sexual Selection: This is the mechanism by which a mate can choose a partner. It thus chooses based on desirable traits, not necessarily ones which maximise survivability. Think Signal Theory - ie. the impression of desirability is equally as important as actually having desirable traits. This is why you have birds with brightly coloured, yet impractical crests - look at male peacocks as an example.
- Absence of Competition: In general apparently non-optimal outcomes can result simply from a species emerging into new environments with little competition. In this case, sub-optimal traits are carried through as there is no need for their elimination. Our appendices, tail bones and other evolutionary 'hang-overs' are evidence of this, being neither too great a 'flaw' or damage survivability enough to influence production of children.
- Signalling: If you were poisonous, and this was your primary defence, how do you advertise this to competitors? Often frogs, snakes and other poisonous insects have brightly coloured skins to actively advertise 'I'm Poisonous', even if it becomes more obvious to predators.
- Cultural Selection: In many mammalian or primate societies, don't forget that hierarchy and society forms major components of selection for partners. In particular certain kinds of males, acting or looking certain ways, may be selected by females, or indeed females may be choosing based on a wide variety of complex social attributes or circumstances not associated simply with optimal survivability. For instance, care-giving attributes, compliance or prospects may be more influential.
So in general, the traits you mention in your question can indeed be passed down to children from a wide variety of factors, not just 'survival of the fittest'.

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1hmm. I could see an argument for tail sticking around as an example of the handicap principal. They are dead weight realistically, so lean into that. They are maintained because their dead weight and fit males prove they can survive with the handicap of a tail. Only problem is that implies tails would be much larger on males, and probably sexualized much like males sexualize breasts which would be evolutionarily valid but likely have someone accusing the aurthor of having odd fetishes. – dsollen Jan 02 '24 at 17:39
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2@dsollen Not necessarily. The tail doesn't need to be sex-exclusive- it can be a trait like hair color or height, in which it gets passed down no matter the biological sex of the children. Being "tall" is disadvantageous in many ways in modern society - harder to find clothes, need more food - but it's an actively selected trait socially in far more ways than sexually. Tall women have greater chances of getting promotions, for example, than their shorter counterpart. – Mermaker Jan 02 '24 at 19:30
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1@Mermaker if it's justified by the handicap principal it would have to be male only The whole point is to handicap the males to prove male fitness, the the male's genes are so awesome that he can survive even with a handicap and so her daughters will be amazing. Females are okay with their sons inheriting their father's handicap because it makes the son sexier to future mates, but their daughter getting a handicap; and not gaining from it making her more capable of finding a mate; is just...well a handicap. – dsollen Jan 02 '24 at 19:56
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1@dsollen That's not how those traits work, however. Females have no control if they want the trait or not for their female offspring. They want their partner to have that trait, and they want their male offspring to have it to, as it is a marker for good things. That their female offspring also gets it is inconsequential for the mother. Also, a female that can survive with the handicap is a stronger female than one that can't. Selection doesn't need to be uni-directional - quite a few species have different mating strategies in which a trait like this could make sense in both. – Mermaker Jan 02 '24 at 20:37
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1@dsollen Also, keep in mind that once any hint of sapience hits, selection can go way off the rails with all sorts of strange cultural preferences - and those preferences can shift very fast, even. Just look at humans - what an ideal "man" is in the eyes of society varies a lot over time, from bulky walls of muscle to effeminate femboys and back again. We're weird! This species can be, too. – Mermaker Jan 02 '24 at 20:41
There's a big chance that tails would cease to exist very early if they do nothing to lead an individual to survive.
I dispute two things here:
- A trait is only selected against if it provides some significant disadvantage, not if it fails to provide any advantage. IOW, if the tail is not a problem in terms of physics or biology, it likely won’t go away unless it’s a problem in terms of psychology or sociology.
- A tail could, with the right leg structure and posture, actually still provide some advantage to a biped in an early hunter-gatherer society. For real life wolves, dogs, and foxes, a tail helps provide better control of their center of gravity when running, making it easier to maintain balance on uneven terrain and to turn (you can actually see this pretty easily if you pay close attention to how a large dog’s tail moves when it’s running). It should provide the same benefit for a biped with the right leg structure, albeit to a lesser degree, but would likely lead to a more ‘hunched-over’ posture from a human perspective.
If they have fur, it will be easier for them to live in temperate and cold climate zones, which could be a barrier to developing sapience (I got fur, why do I need sapience to think of something that'll let me survive in this cold, if I'm already fine?), and can make them less furry (which I don't like :) )
But what happens when the climate shifts and things get warmer? Surviving in the cold was a potential driving factor for humans because we’re not naturally well suited to that. But if you want to use that argument, any environmental pressure applied slowly over hundreds of generations may be sufficient. So instead of evolving in warmer times and then developing sapience during an ice age, your species evolved in colder times and developed sapience when their homelands got too warm.
Also the fur, and hence almost no sweating, can make them less competent in running long distances (bad for hunting).
Not bad for hunting, bad for hunting the way humans used to hunt before we developed a sufficient degree of tool use to not hunt like that anymore. One could argue the opposite, humans aren’t great at sprinting (even sea lions can outrun humans over short distances on land) and aren’t particularly dangerous without weapons (we lack the strength of most other large apes, and the natural weapons of a majority of other predatory mammals), which is bad for hunting.
IRL, all large predatory mammals are covered in fur and don’t sweat, and pretty much all of them (except possibly cheetahs) hunt just fine because the way they hunt doesn’t focus much on endurance running. They rely on large-scale pack tactics (humans don’t theoretically need this in the right circumstances, even without high technology), often combined with ambush tactics relying on being able to sprint fast.

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1Hard disagree on point 1: if a trait costs energy (which a tail undoubtedly does) and it isn't useful (sexual selection is definitely useful) evolution has a really firm track-record of getting rid of it. Hard agree on point 2: flightless birds have tails. – user121330 Jan 04 '24 at 09:57
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@user121330 If it costs enough energy to be an issue, then that would undoubtedly qualify as a ‘significant disadvantage’. – Austin Hemmelgarn Jan 04 '24 at 12:03