Evolution of Bearfolk

Question

What animals and in what conditions would evolve into something resembling a bearfolk like this one

A ''bear'' humanoid of 600–800 pounds standing in two legs, divided in many sub-species with different diets, habits and civilizations.

How long is estimated the time for something like this to ever evolve starting from the 24th century? And ignoring completely the existance of humanity. For this question just imagine humanity never existed in the first place so it can't affect the bearfolk.

What else could speed up the evolution of a bearfolk?

Would it develop sexual dismorphism? how high are the chances of it having naturally greater potential in intelligence than humans?

how strong would it be, what limits on strenghts can it physically have? The strongest man on earth Zydrunas Savickas can lift 2.37 times its own weight, about 1155 pounds and seems to become stronger every year. Zydrunas Savickas could lift a bear folk but could this bear looking humanoid lift as much or even more?

How fast can it run and for how much time? does it run on two or four legs?

I want it to have rectangular pupils like goats so it can have a field of view of 320°, twice larger than humans. Is it possible or efficient?

Just one thing about the pupils: prey have large fields of view so they can see predators coming. One of the primary ways they do this is by having their eyes on the sides of their heads (not just funky pupils). Predators have forward-facing eyes so they can focus both eyes on their prey and, when they get close, have excellent stereoscopic vision to strike accurately. If you look at the smartest creatures on the planet, all of them are carnivores or omnivores with forward-facing eyes. It's been hypothesized that only predatory creatures can develop such intelligence. — Azuaron, Aug 07 '16 at 00:04
I feel that this question is way too open top give a complete answer. Basically: it depends. Bears already can stand and walk upright, but there's little evolutionary pressure encouraging a standard upright gait, tool use (hard without thumbs), or a wildly different visual system to take advantage of those weird pupils. I suppose "science based" is distinct from "hard science" so one could always just make stuff up, but this could really be taken in any direction — Isaac Kotlicky, Aug 07 '16 at 01:58
I would like to take a moment to point out that, if humans never existed, there wouldn't be a 24th century. — Frostfyre, Aug 07 '16 at 15:04
@Azuaron, the answer that I just posted argued the exact opposite idea; that only prey creatures have incentive to evolve intelligence. It seems to me that if the prey is too stupid to hide, there is little advantage to knowing how to search. But if the predator doesn't know how to search, there is tremendous motivation to learn how to hide. I get that intelligence needs lots of calories, favoring omnivores and carnivores; but I think the jury is still out on the predator/prey angle. — Henry Taylor, Aug 07 '16 at 16:55
"Would it develop sexual dimorphism?" should be covered by What evolutionary factors can contribute to large sexual dimorphism in large mammals? — user, Aug 07 '16 at 20:29
There's a number of interesting questions here, but they really should be asked as separate questions so that each can get the focus it deserves, and preferably each of them building on the knowledge gained from that prior. See for example How to break down to ask a question of too large of a scope on [meta]. — user, Aug 07 '16 at 20:34
@HenryTaylor I don't know what to tell you: dolphins, primates, dogs, cats, rats, and crows. Prey have many different options to survive predators (bigger than you, faster than you, herd, can't find me) most of which can be covered by instinct (as opposed to problem solving). Beyond that, prey only occasionally have to deal with predators. Predators have to out-think prey, and they have to do it every day or die. Just look at tool use. Most are predation, and nearly all are getting food; I only see one that's defending against predators. — Azuaron, Aug 08 '16 at 17:49
@Azuaron, solid arguments! Until now, I've always thought along the lines that I described in my answer, and even integrated those thoughts into a couple of short stories a few years back. Thanks to you, I will be giving all of this more thought and will probably need to go make some edits to those unpublished works. Thank you for giving me a new angle on an old issue. I really appreciate it! I think I will leave my answer as it stands though, because I don't have any other excuse to use the Sloth Bear. — Henry Taylor, Aug 08 '16 at 19:22
@Azuaron Actually binocular vision isn't limited to predators...for example see human ancestors, pre-primates gained binocular view when they gave up meat based diets for leaves based ones and at the same time they lost claws and their powerful sense of smell, but then Just see the largest and most dangerous predators on earth they all lack binocular vision... Also the intelligence thing doesn't make much sense, as from all the smartest animals on earth only dolphins and rats eat meat (and they don't have binocular vision) while elephants,parrots,chimps and others are pretty much herbivore. — Charon, Aug 31 '16 at 12:13
So yeah, one could say that having both binocular vision and intelligence is more of a herbivore thing while most predators have either one or the other... obviously there are exceptions for everything as the pig being one of the only animals having both intelligence and binocular vision while being also able to eat meat, but exceptions don't make a rule otherwise every predator would be like a pig. — Charon, Aug 31 '16 at 12:25
@渡し守シャロン "Some animals, usually, but not always, prey animals, have their two eyes positioned on opposite sides of their heads to give the widest possible field of view. Some other animals, usually, but not always, predatory animals, have their two eyes positioned on the front of their heads, thereby allowing for binocular vision and reducing their field of view in favor of stereopsis. There are only three extant groups of vertebrates with truly forward-facing eyes: primates, carnivorous mammals, and birds of prey." Wikipedia — Azuaron, Aug 31 '16 at 13:07
@渡し守シャロン It's also important to note, most primates never "gave up" meat; most primates (including humans and human ancestors) are opportunistic omnivores; we'll eat anything with a calorie count. Chimpanzees, in particular, are known to engage in organized hunts of red colobus monkeys. Parrots are also omnivores (insect predation). In conclusion, one could not accurately say binocular vision or intelligence is "more of a herbivore thing." — Azuaron, Aug 31 '16 at 13:16

score 9 · Answer 1 · edited Aug 07 '16 at 20:37

I count 9 different questions in this post. This answer addresses only the first...

What animals and in what conditions would evolve into something resembling a bearfolk?

The image below, which comes from The Whisker Chronicles, shows the evolution of bears over the last 40 million years.

You want the creature to be permanently bipedal which doesn't seem like too much of a stretch because bears can already stand upright. You will need to find an evolutionary advantage to upright walking, but bear hips are already reasonably well prepared for the job.

Many of the traits you are looking for, such as upright stature, intelligence, tool-use and 320 degree vision, are primarilly defensive in nature. Evolution gives these kinds of defensive traits to prey animals.

So I nominate the Sloth Bear as the root ancestor of your Centurion Yogi Bear.

The sloth bear is a comparatively small, insectavore bear from India.

If humanity had never existed, India would be overflowing with Tigers.

That means that, unlike most of the rest of the Ursidae line, they are not the apex predator of their evolutionary homeland.

They are prey for the tigers! ...and that give them plenty of incentive to evolve!

score 3 · Answer 2 · answered Aug 07 '16 at 19:50

That's a pretty big set of questions. To be realistic this is impossible, bears are not geared for intelligence and have no reason to become so, they're some of the most powerful animals on the planet. But reality aside let's have a look.

What animals and in what conditions would evolve into something resembling a bearfolk like this one? Well bears obviously, the other answer sums it up very well.

How long is estimated the time for something like this to ever evolve starting from the 24th century? Short answer a while, long answer on the order of millions of years. Though genetic tinkering by humans could make the work quicker and more targeted, perhaps reducing the time to only a few hundred thousand years, less if your world's genetic engineering tech is hyper-advanced.

What else could speed up the evolution of a bearfolk? You would need an environment which favoured their traits; bipedalism, intelligence, good vision. This would suggest a habitat of primarily flat land, on which they are predated. They would have to be social (unlike real world bears) and live in close communities.

Would it develop sexual dimorphism? Probably not as much as humans, though that rather depends on how their proto-culture develops. Bears have a heightened sense of smell and can detect pheromones, therefore they can identify the sex of an individual without sight. Losing that ability as humans did might spur more differences.

How high are the chances of it having naturally greater potential in intelligence than humans? Like humans they would start out less intelligent and grow over time; it could easily outpace modern humans given enough time though.

How strong would it be, what limits on strengths can it physically have? Bipedalism severely limits strength (you now only have two legs to lift with), but they'd easily beat humans if they kept their current build.

How fast can it run and for how much time? does it run on two or four legs? Faster than a human, that's for sure, but not for very long. Humans are the stamina kings of the animal kingdom, bears can do short bursts of speed but not for very long. And by definition bipeds would run on two legs, leaving the hands free to hold things.

I want it to have rectangular pupils like goats so it can have a field of view of 320°, twice larger than humans. Is it possible or efficient? No, goats have those pupils because they have eyes on the sides of their heads; it allows them to see behind them easier. Humans (and bearfolk) can just turn their heads around, so a heightened field of view would be pretty unnecessary unless predation from all sides was a serious threat.

Hope this helped you somewhat.

"by definition bipeds would run on two legs" [citation needed] It isn't much of a stretch to imagine an animal that walks on two legs (either plantigrade or digitigrade) for greater view, but runs on all four for greater speed. — user, Aug 07 '16 at 20:31
In order to be technologically advanced you need hands. If you have hands you can't run on four legs. It's one or the other, not both. — PtAltaria, Aug 09 '16 at 14:24

Evolution of Bearfolk

2 Answers2

Linked