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Most species of animal, especially mammals, have a special skin cell the produces melanin, which is responsible for the color of their skin, but orcs are generally depicted as green creatures and, of course they are another race too, but for this question, assume they are mammals and are green. What will be the evolutionary trait that causes it and is there any real benefit should they form civilization resembling our modern society?

adaliabooks
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user6760
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  • Similar: https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/65480/little-green-earth-men/91562#91562 – Willk Sep 27 '17 at 01:44
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    Why do you think orcs are depicted as green? As far as I recall, Tolkien says nothing about their being anything but rather dark and dirty. – jamesqf Sep 27 '17 at 04:09
  • @jamesqf maybe the OP means ogre? – Vylix Sep 27 '17 at 04:16
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    The original Tolkien Orcs didn't evolve. They were artificial creatures created by Morgoth (IIRC) as his equivalent of Elves. If you can create creatures you can make them whatever colour you like. No natural selection was involved in making these creatures. Apart from these factoids, my preferred theory is they're green because they're not feeling well. – a4android Sep 27 '17 at 04:28
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    @jamesqf, in Warcraft orcs have green skin (obviously this has no relation with Tolkien orcs). Anyway the question can be about any green-skinned fictional mammalian race (goblins in Magic the Gathering, for example, which are different of goblins from other media with non-green skin) – Brian Hellekin Sep 27 '17 at 05:19
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    @jamesqf Warhammer orcs are also green. So are the 40K ones, and those in Magic. These games, along with Warcraft, have been around since the 80s and 90s, and probably make up the bulk of physical depictions of these creatures since LotR was mostly around in text-form then. – Erik Sep 27 '17 at 07:39
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    @BrianHellekin Actually, in Warcraft orcs are brown/grey. It is the ones that drunk the green demonic kool aid that got their skin green from corruption. – Alice Sep 27 '17 at 08:07
  • @Erik Goblins (and orcs) in MTG have changed quite a bit over the years. Goblin in particular because their appearance is voluntarily different on every plane they are on (in the latest one, Ixalan, they look like blue/purple monkeys). Orcs have been generally black or very dark-skinned in recent years. I think the last green-skinned goblins are from Onslaught in 2002. – Autar Sep 27 '17 at 09:46
  • @Brian Hellekin: I refuse to be held responsible for the cultural illiteracy of game developers :-) (Or, alas, movie producers.) The question about mammals in general might be better be asked on the Biology site. But most mammals have drab pigmentation because most are dichromats - trichromatic primates are an exception. If you want green skin, or any other color, just tinker with the melanin-producing gene(s) to have them create some other pigment. – jamesqf Sep 27 '17 at 16:47
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    I alwyas thought Warhammer 40k Orks were green because they were a fungoid species with chlorophyll in their skin. – PhasedOut Sep 27 '17 at 17:35
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    @Alice "Actually", in the original Warcraft, orcs are green. They have since added they weren't always green, and in-universe have a story how that came about. That story would make a good answer, not a correction to the question. – Luke Sep 28 '17 at 02:01
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    @PhasedOut you are correct in WH40k Orks are a fungoid race, although ironically they should not be green. Fungi are not plants and do not by definition have chloroplasts. – Sarriesfan Sep 28 '17 at 14:41
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    @a4android This is incorrect. The origin of Orcs is unclear both in- and out-of-universe, but Morgoth definitely did not "create" them, as he was unable to create life. The fact that they were bred and therefore subject to natural selection is clear. The only question is when and from which races they were bred. – isanae Sep 28 '17 at 17:13
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    When and why did orcs go green? https://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/170556/55053 – A C Sep 28 '17 at 19:20
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    @isanae Morgoth wasn't able to create life but he was able to corrupt it. The most common and accepted explanation is that Orcs are corrupted elves of sorts. That means that Morgoth could very well make his orcs whatever color he wanted. – Mermaker Sep 29 '17 at 20:01
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    @T.Sar It may be "common", but it's not accepted. Tolkien wrote several essays late in his life confirming that, in-universe, the origin of orcs is unclear. Earlier essays talk of both men and elves. As for the amount of control Melkor had on their appearance, it is unclear and I would disagree with your assertion. – isanae Sep 29 '17 at 20:06

10 Answers10

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Flamingos are originally born grey but become pink due to eating brine shrimp, which have a natural dye called Canthaxanthin from their diet brine shrimp and blue-green algae. If an orc was like a flamingo (lol) then they could become green by eating certain plants/animals that have natural green dyes or colours that make green such as blue and yellow. And don't worry that a flamingo is a bird, it happens in humans as well. An example is the Paul Karason, who turned blue from drinking colloidal silver to treat his dermatitis, and the blue skin from excessive colloidal silver ingestion is permanent. Another is eating carrots or pumpkin in excessive amounts turning your skin yellow. So just make your orcs eat something green a lot to make them green!

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Fleon_
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    this is interesting, you are what you eat – user6760 Sep 27 '17 at 02:02
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    I personally turned orange as a baby. I loved carrots apparently. And not much else. – Erin Thursby Sep 27 '17 at 05:46
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    Now I'm picturing a crowd of orcs huddled in a bathroom during a hurricane. – KSmarts Sep 27 '17 at 13:13
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    Sooo..Orcs eat lots of Colloidal Silver and lots of pumpkins and carrots? :) – Paul TIKI Sep 27 '17 at 15:12
  • @ErinThursby are you sure it wasn't a bad spray tan? – ratchet freak Sep 27 '17 at 15:45
  • @ratchetfreak That's what it looked like. My mom panicked and took me to the doctor. – Erin Thursby Sep 27 '17 at 16:23
  • Flamingos aren't mammals, though. They are class aves. – TARKUS Sep 27 '17 at 18:23
  • @TARKUS yeah, I don't feel like this answers the question from a mammal perspective--also doesn't answer the "evolutionary trait that causes it and is there any real benefit should they form civilization resembling our modern society" nothing on the social aspect. Looks like it's good for the OP though, as it's the selected answer, and it also has the most votes. An interesting perspective--you are what you eat! – Erin Thursby Sep 28 '17 at 01:08
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    We turned my eldest son orange when he was a baby. He sure did like squash and carrots! – cwallenpoole Sep 28 '17 at 04:03
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    @ErinThursby make whatever turns orcs green be super-nutritious and so well-nourished orcs tend to be greener than others, meaning that a greenish complexion became attractive. However, (non-)resistance to turning green is a genetic trait. Jump forward a few generations and you have orcs more and more easily turning even brighter shades of green for ever-smaller amounts of said food. Soon orcs will start having skin-coloring operations to get that "fake green" look while others will insist their shade is all natural. – errantlinguist Sep 28 '17 at 18:55
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    You've all prompted me to have a baby and see what colors I can turn it. – thumbtackthief Sep 28 '17 at 19:55
  • I think in the Warhammer universe they are green because they are fungi. If we tweak it to "they eat fungi", that might do the job. – T.E.D. Sep 28 '17 at 20:06
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    This explains a lot about Orcs. They were forced to eat their broccoli at an early age. – a4android Sep 29 '17 at 02:43
  • So is Popeye an orc? – SBI Sep 29 '17 at 14:10
  • @thumbtackthief: are you joking or serious? If you actually did it, may I ask how it turned out? – Alendyias Sep 27 '21 at 15:02
  • @Alendyias Yup. This question inspired me to have 5 or 6 babies--who can keep track?--and turn them different colors. We'll be marching in the Pride parade this year, even though I haven't quite figured out the purple one yet. – thumbtackthief Sep 27 '21 at 15:56
  • @thumbtackthief: how do they feel about being different colors? Do they know this question is behind how they came to be? Sorry if this is asking too much.... – Alendyias Sep 27 '21 at 15:58
  • @Alendyias We've taught them to look beyond skin color – thumbtackthief Sep 27 '21 at 18:40
  • @thumbtackthief: ah, good for you and them, very wise! And very necessary, considering the situation.... – Alendyias Sep 27 '21 at 19:28
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There are two green mammals, actually. And both are sloths.

The two toed and three-toed sloth.

In this case, it's a type of algae, which is only present on sloth hair and is a symbiotic relationship.

But you aren't talking fur, you're talking skin. Still. You can use this as a model and you'll want to look at bacteria and fungus present on all our skins.

Humans can get a condition called Tinea Versicolor that causes discoloration and spots. Basically it is a fungal overgrowth.

You can take this concept and run with it. Here's how I would do it.

There are different breeds of fungus or bacteria present in orcish populations. The conditions of their skin is a perfect home for them and may give some benefit to orcs. They might be born a greyish color (of which there are plenty of examples in the animal kingdom) but as they pick up the fungus in their tribe, they gain coloration.

Depending on the particular fungus their skin can turn blue or green as they age, and they may even get freckles of an alternate color or from colonies that are more intense. Their starting color, which would range from a very light grey to almost black will also determine what kind of bacteria or fungus can live there.

They may also bathe in material that encourages the growth, and may have "tan lines" because it could react differently to sun.

The advantage is up to you. You can look to the sloths, it can help with sun screening their delicate hides, or even help to heal and toughen upper layers of the skin.

If it is fungal, certain jobs and contact with certain things may kill the fungus--that will be up to you as to what. You might even have their toenails be a brighter or different shade. In humans a blue or green toenail would mean disease, but for them, it means that they are healthy.

There could be various diseases/medical conditions that mean a loss of pigment, or an overgrowth.

An overgrowth could be temporarily advantageous, toughening their skin, making them nearly unstoppable in battle, but shortening their lives.

Just using reality as a jumping off point into the fantastic! The science can be partially based in reality, but since you are talking about a species we don't have on this planet, you can really do whatever you like, as long as it makes sense and is internally consistent. The orcs themselves aren't likely to know what the mechanism is.

If one orc joins another tribe, they might slowly change in color, if that fungus is dominant and can kill the original, after a lot of contact with the other tribe (especially intimately). For example, dark green can be a stronger fungus than the light blue. So a dark green orc might never turn blue when they join the a light blue tribe, but after years they might gain a more teal tone (especially if they marry a blue). But a blue might quickly become green. They could all be green, I'm just spitballin' here. Once a colony is established on their skin, it might not ever change--that's up to you. Such a system could lead to prejudices of course and could be interesting socially.

Erin Thursby
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    To think it is said they broke the mould after Orcs appeared. Fungi and algae, eh! Always good to see a well reasoned argument based on obscure but real pieces of science. Plus one. – a4android Sep 27 '17 at 04:32
  • And what’s more, warcraft orcs are fungoid. – Obie 2.0 Sep 27 '17 at 07:51
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    This is a very similar argument as the ones used to justify Warhammer 40K's Ork biology. If I recall correctly, they're a sort of half-cockney hooligan, half fungus. Good stuff! – Valthek Sep 27 '17 at 09:10
  • This could be interesting for Orcs that were kicked from their tribe and would have to be "cleansed" of their color in an anti-fungal bath – Reed Sep 27 '17 at 13:28
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    One of the benefits to the sloth that the molds provide is that they smell and taste nasty. The Sloth has no known preditor because eating one is so disgusting that they would rather starve. The biggest threat to Sloths today are cars hitting them. This might work in the Orc's favor as they tend to be portrayed as smelly and unclean, which could be the reason the growth is favored... in a war like barbaric society, it might discourage eating your ally and getting eaten by bigger things that you hunt. You could even say that clean orcs smell wonderful. – hszmv Sep 27 '17 at 13:52
  • @Reed Yes, socially there's all sorts of things you could do with this model. Fun! – Erin Thursby Sep 27 '17 at 13:52
  • @hszmv The benefit can be anything. Not all funguses smell, but if the OP were using the sloths as the jumping off point, then, yes, it could be the evolutionary advantage. – Erin Thursby Sep 27 '17 at 13:54
  • The link you cite also explained that mammals could have green skin by mixing the blue found in mandrill with yellow. They suggested this doesn't occur because bright green is neither effective camouflage nor signalling... seems odd to have ignored that when it constitutes 2/3 of the actual citation. –  Sep 27 '17 at 14:08
  • As a bonus, this could go a long way to explaining the natural antipathy between Humans and Orcs. Humans think Orcs are disgusting & Orcs think Humans smell like... prey? – G. Ann - SonarSource Team Sep 27 '17 at 14:09
  • @G.Ann-SonarSourceTeam Running with that thought, there are reasons why certain smells and tastes affect us the way we do. The smell of vomit, for example, is extra potent to humans because eat from the same food source. If one cave man is sickened enough to vomit, chances are it was the meal, so it's best if you vomit as well... just in case. Similarly, humans do not like bitter foods because alkaline has a bitter taste and considering they are naturally occurring poisons, we best not eat them. Meanwhile, sugar is common in plants, so we favor sweet things to train us to eat that stuff. – hszmv Sep 27 '17 at 15:24
  • In fact, if you want to go one deeper, Orcs could have a diet that favors rotted meats, which humans can't stand because it's too ridden with diseases. If the greening agent is a rot agent, it could be that orc bodies do not posses the ability to digest this agent, so it gets trapped in their skin and hair, turning them a greenish color. High protien diets do lead to a more bulky build and aggressive behaviors, so that would explain orcish aggression in society, smells, taste, colors, and musculature. Orcs on a cooked diet may even look more human in color over a prolonged time. – hszmv Sep 27 '17 at 15:31
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    @inappropriateCode I was just running with one of the ideas rather than all. If you want to answer using that bit, why not? I was running with how/why is this possible rather than why it's unlikely evolutionarily. specifically looking at the growth model. There's a whole answer involving skin that could be found here--not a pigment, but rather a structure. The possibilities on answering this are actually pretty interesting, but I just expanded on one idea. – Erin Thursby Sep 27 '17 at 16:06
  • @ErinThursby Fair enough. –  Sep 27 '17 at 16:16
  • I was going to use the sloth example, but the sloth's skin isn't green, it's its hair that is tinged with algae. Mandrills, on the other hand, truly have multi-colored skin, on the male's snout, from blue to a vibrant red. – TARKUS Sep 27 '17 at 18:22
  • @Obie2.0 Not warcraft's, but Warhammer's orcs are fungoids! – Mermaker Sep 29 '17 at 20:07
  • @Valthek No. They're all ork. – Puck Jun 04 '19 at 01:22
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I liked Fleon_'s note about diet. Let's add some more...

  • Perhaps their skins are occupied by symbiotic algae which synthesize some vital nutrient for the orc. The green is just a side-effect.

  • Could be that the orcs evolved in an area of dense underbrush, and the camouflage was useful.

  • Might be the opposite ... they evolved in a very non-green environment, and the green is a sexual display (a la peacocks), advertising that the orc in question is so very tough that he doesn't need any stinkin' camouflage.

  • Heck, I'll just toss this one in. It is a well-known fact that orcs begin their lives as photosynthetic pollywogs living in ponds and puddles. The retained the green coloring because it's coded by the same allele as a very valuable trait (e.g. tendency toward mindless, cartoon-like violence). The green has little effect in their adult lives, though I'll say they do enjoy them some sunbathing!

Update:

akaioi
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  • Ahh! I didn't see your algae one when I posted. Mine's a fungal, bit of a variation and expansion. – Erin Thursby Sep 27 '17 at 03:48
  • @ErinThursby major props for bringing in sloths; sloths are fun! An entire ecosystem on one animal. Should mention polar bears as well... – akaioi Sep 27 '17 at 14:58
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In world of warcraft, orcs are born with grey skin, but it turns green when they are exposed to fel (demonic) magic.

Trolls are green because they have symbiotic algae that photosynthesis and give them better stamina than one would expect.

pojo-guy
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  • https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/13031/is-there-lore-behind-the-difference-between-the-brown-and-green-orcs-of-warcraft – Rodrigo Menezes Sep 27 '17 at 19:14
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A simple evolutionary reason would be camouflage. Just like many animal's fur is colored in a way that hinders detection, the skin's color can evolutionary adapt to improve camouflage as well.

Preconditions for this is an environment rich in green's, and a sufficient time span between orc's ancestor's losing their fur and the present.

Sudix
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The only reason green pigment is rare in mammals is most mammals can't see green, so mammals lost the "green" pigments pretty early. It all started because existing pigments could not make hair green, the blue pigments (tybalt blue) used in skin and feathers don't work in hair,(most animals make green by combining blue and yellow) so if mammals had wanted to be green they would have had to evolve a new pigment, without color vision there is little reason for this to happen. Note this is why green still occur in eyes. The existence of better color vision in primates has led to a greater diversity of coloration they have blue skinned primates, but they still can't get blue or green hair. It is entirely possible they may evolve a new green pigment (that is how they got better color vision than other mammals after all), it could even be a mutation of an existing pigment. Maybe they don't make red or yellow pigments anymore instead making new pure green pigment.

As for why this mutation would spread you have three options, although you could combine these as much as you like.

  1. Camouflage, maybe they live in a jungle or somewhere else green blends.

  2. Sexual selection, maybe it is novel enough that mates find it attractive instead of repulsive, considering all the other weird things that sexual selection has produced this one is easy.

  3. maybe the new pigment is actually better at protecting the underlying tissue than the previous pigment. maybe it reflects the ultraviolet end of the spectrum better which is what makes it green.

The effect on their culture will be minimal. Although if you include #2 they may find non-green skinned people look sickly or ugly.

John
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  • I've been thinking about the claim in the first sentence since yesterday, but I can't make head or tail of it. I'm guessing you mean that mammals who are green may not be attractive to prospective mates, who'd see them as grey, and thus they would not reproduce? Or ...? – Elise van Looij Sep 29 '17 at 11:51
  • I updated the post hopefully it is clearer. That was my fault for being vague. – John Sep 29 '17 at 13:46
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I really like the Warhammer 40K answer: The Orks aren't really green-skinned but they have plant-like organelles that undertake photosynthesis which turn them green. These feed their Ork host excess carbohydrates in exchange for a place to live and easier access to nutrients. The extra energy makes Orks better warriors, stronger, faster, and with greater endurance and increases their rate of healing letting them shrug off wounds that should be lethal in just a few weeks.

Ash
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    FWIW in the 40k universe orks are fungus and reproduce via spore. – aslum Sep 27 '17 at 13:10
  • @aslum According to the canon entry on Ork Physiology "Orks are green-skinned and red-blooded, a side effect of their symbiotic physiological and genetic relationship with fungi." They're not actually fungi themselves, they can however reproduce by spore. – Ash Sep 27 '17 at 13:15
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Less of a biological than a social factor, but perhaps Orcs get tattooed with green ink - and get more tattoos the more successful they are as warriors. Similar kind of idea to ancient Picts painting themselves blue before battle with woad dye (see here for more info: http://www.woad-inc.co.uk/history.html).

The only reason we see green Orcs is because we only ever encounter them in battle, and never in any domestic environment - their natural skin colour could be bright pink, for all we see of their non-warrior citizens.

user_629957
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Since orcs tend to live in damp, dark environments which would support all sorts of bacteria/fungi you could argue they evolved copper stores in their epidermis as an antimicrobial

onb
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They have a sort of Green Jaundice because their liver is rotten.

That is also a good explanation for their ill temper, because as another article states:

"It's not easy being green!"

heltonbiker
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